Best Manuel Rodriguez 4/4 Size Classical Guitars 2026
Alright, so you're looking at a Manuel Rodriguez classical - good choice. They've been a solid workhorse for serious students and gigging players for decades, offering a real balance of tradition and playability. Forget the flashy boutique stuff; these guitars deliver a recognizable, reliable voice. If you want a guitar that'll hold up to years of practice and the occasional pub gig, let's dive in.
Last updated: August 29, 2026
⚡ The best 4/4 size classical guitars in 2026 are Manuel Rodriguez Cafe Cortado Eucalyptus (top pick), Manuel Rodriguez Cafe Cortado Rosewood for tighter budgets, and Manuel Rodriguez Superior A-C for pros — selected from 15 options, priced $336–$1,745, ranked by brand, price and popularity.
#1
⭐
4.7/5
AudioFu Score
Specs:
8/10
Detail:
10/10
Value:
3/10
Manuel Rodriguez Cafe Cortado Eucalyptus
Nut width
52 mm (2.05")
Scale
650 mm (25.59")
Frets
24 frets
Fingerboard
Rosewood fingerboard
Academic Study
Spanish Guitar
Fingerstyle
Key Feature:
The Cafe Cortado Eucalyptus is a beautifully crafted classical guitar, offering a great balance of traditional tone and modern amplification. The ergonomic neck and included accessories make it an excellent choice for intermediate to advanced players seeking a comfortable and versatile instrument, particularly those wanting to explore amplified classical performance.
PROS
- • Solid spruce top with cedar strips delivers a warm, responsive, and articulate tone.
- • ARTEC SQ-3 preamp with Solidflex pickup offers clean amplification and a built-in tuner.
- • Ergonomic neck design and asymmetrical tenon greatly improves high fret access and comfort.
- • Premium accessories like Gewa armrest, strap, and case add significant value and protection.
CONS
- • Eucalyptus plywood back and sides, while attractive, limit the overall resonance potential.
- • Water-based finish, while eco-friendly, may not offer the same depth of gloss as traditional lacquer.
- • Nut width of 52mm might feel a bit wide for players accustomed to narrower classical necks.
⭐
4.7/5
AudioFu Score
Specs:
8/10
Detail:
10/10
Value:
3/10
Art. 590425
$1,745
#2
⭐
4.7/5
AudioFu Score
Specs:
8/10
Detail:
10/10
Value:
3/10
Manuel Rodriguez Cafe Cortado Rosewood
Nut width
52 mm (2.05")
Scale
650 mm (25.59")
Frets
24 frets
Fingerboard
Rosewood fingerboard
Flamenco
Spanish Guitar
Classical
Key Feature:
The Cafe Cortado is a really interesting take on a classical guitar – the pickup system is genuinely good for stage work, and the ergonomic neck makes it surprisingly easy to play. It's a great option for students or gigging musicians who want a quality instrument with amplified capabilities without a premium price tag, though the sound isn't going to fool anyone into thinking it’s a concert-grade all-solid guitar.
PROS
- • Solid spruce top with cedar strips delivers a warm, responsive fundamental tone.
- • The ARTEC SQ-3 preamp and Solidflex pickup system offer surprisingly clean amplified sound.
- • Ergonomic asymmetrical neck enhances playability, especially in higher registers.
- • Premium inclusions like the Gewa armrest, strap, and locks add significant value.
CONS
- • Plywood back and sides limit the overall resonance and projection compared to all-solid wood models.
- • Water-based satin finish, while eco-friendly, may feel less refined to some players.
- • The Cortado's unique soundhole design might not appeal to players seeking a traditional classical tone.
⭐
4.7/5
AudioFu Score
Specs:
8/10
Detail:
10/10
Value:
3/10
Art. 590422
$1,745
Manuel Rodriguez Superior A-C
Nut width
52 mm (2.05")
Scale
650 mm (25.59")
Frets
19 frets
Fingerboard
Ebony fingerboard
Bossa Nova
Classical
Academic Study
Key Feature:
The Manuel Rodriguez Superior A-C is a really solid choice for intermediate to advanced students and players looking for a quality classical guitar without premium-priced investment. The cedar top provides a lovely warmth, and the bubinga back gives it a good amount of volume. It's a well-balanced instrument that's ready to play and sounds surprisingly mature for its class.
PROS
- • Solid cedar top delivers a warm, responsive, and mature tone.
- • Bubinga back and sides provide excellent projection and sustain.
- • Real Spanish neck construction offers comfortable playability and traditional feel.
- • Rosewood bridge ensures stable string transfer and contributes to rich tone.
CONS
- • Bubinga can sometimes exhibit a slightly 'dry' tone, requiring adjustment for some players.
- • The high-gloss eco-lacquer might feel a bit thick for players preferring a more open feel.
- • While well-made, the hardware isn't quite as refined as higher-end models.
⭐
4.8/5
AudioFu Score
Specs:
8/10
Detail:
8/10
Value:
7/10
Art. 534125
$651
Manuel Rodriguez Magistral F-C
Nut width
52 mm (2.05")
Scale
650 mm (25.59")
Frets
19 frets
Fingerboard
Ebony fingerboard
Spanish Guitar
Classical
Flamenco
Key Feature:
The Magistral F-C is a really solid choice for serious students and intermediate players looking for a traditionally voiced classical guitar. The all-solid wood construction provides a mature sound that punches above its price point, and the Spanish neck joint is a lovely feature. It's a beautifully made instrument that's ready to be played and enjoyed.
PROS
- • Solid cedar top delivers warm, responsive projection and tonal complexity.
- • Indian rosewood back/sides provide rich bass and sustain.
- • Spanish neck joint offers excellent playability and comfortable access.
- • Ebony fingerboard ensures smooth, articulate note definition and durability.
CONS
- • Shellac finish can be prone to cracking with humidity fluctuations; requires careful maintenance.
- • Rosewood is becoming increasingly regulated, impacting future availability and potentially resale value.
- • The Spanish neck joint, while comfortable for some, may take adjustment for players used to other designs.
⭐
4.7/5
AudioFu Score
Specs:
8/10
Detail:
9/10
Value:
5/10
Art. 534114
$1,000
Manuel Rodriguez Magistral F-S
Nut width
52 mm (2.05")
Scale
650 mm (25.59")
Frets
19 frets
Fingerboard
Ebony fingerboard
Spanish Guitar
Bossa Nova
Classical
Key Feature:
The Magistral F-S is a beautifully crafted instrument; the solid top and rosewood back combo really sings. It's a great choice for intermediate to advanced players seeking a refined classical guitar with a balanced tone and excellent projection – a real step up from beginner models.
PROS
- • Solid spruce top delivers a responsive, clear, and articulate tone.
- • Indian rosewood back and sides provide warmth and sustain.
- • Genuine Spanish neck tenon contributes to excellent stability and resonance.
- • Ebony fingerboard offers a smooth playing experience and crisp note definition.
CONS
- • Water-based lacquer, while eco-friendly, might not offer the same depth of gloss as traditional finishes.
- • Rosewood can sometimes exhibit slight cracking with humidity changes – requires proper care.
- • The neck profile, while comfortable for many, might feel a bit thick for players with smaller hands.
⭐
4.7/5
AudioFu Score
Specs:
8/10
Detail:
9/10
Value:
5/10
Art. 534113
$999
Manuel Rodriguez Magistral E-C
Nut width
52 mm (2.05")
Scale
650 mm (25.59")
Frets
19 frets
Fingerboard
Ebony fingerboard
Academic Study
Classical
Spanish Guitar
Key Feature:
The Magistral E-C is a beautifully crafted instrument, offering a balanced and nuanced classical tone. It's ideal for intermediate to advanced students or performing musicians who appreciate a solid, traditional build and a warm, inviting voice – a real step up from entry-level models.
PROS
- • Solid cedar top delivers a warm, responsive, and expressive tone.
- • Walnut back and sides add complexity and projection to the sound.
- • Spanish neck joint provides excellent access to upper registers and comfortable feel.
- • Ebony fingerboard offers smooth playability and a crisp, defined attack.
CONS
- • Walnut's tonal character might be too subdued for players seeking a brighter voice.
- • Shellac finish can be prone to cracking with significant humidity fluctuations.
- • The eco-lacquer, while environmentally friendly, might not offer the same depth of gloss as traditional finishes.
⭐
4.7/5
AudioFu Score
Specs:
8/10
Detail:
9/10
Value:
5/10
Art. 534109
$988
Manuel Rodriguez Magistral D-S
Nut width
52 mm (2.05")
Scale
650 mm (25.59")
Frets
19 frets
Fingerboard
Ebony fingerboard
Spanish Guitar
Classical
Academic Study
Key Feature:
The Magistral D-S is a fantastic choice for intermediate to advanced classical players. The solid woods offer a mature, refined sound with a surprising amount of projection. It’s a great value proposition, delivering a lot of quality for the price point, making it ideal for students or serious hobbyists seeking a step up.
PROS
- • Solid spruce top delivers a clear, responsive, and nuanced tone.
- • Solid mahogany back & sides add warmth and sustain, beautifully balanced.
- • Spanish neck joint provides exceptional playability and comfortable access.
- • Ebony fingerboard offers smooth, fast action and excellent note definition.
CONS
- • Water-based lacquer, while eco-friendly, may not have the depth of traditional finishes.
- • Mahogany can be prone to movement with significant humidity changes.
- • The natural shellac finish requires careful maintenance to prevent stickiness.
⭐
4.8/5
AudioFu Score
Specs:
8/10
Detail:
9/10
Value:
6/10
Art. 534103
$814
Manuel Rodriguez Magistral D-C
Nut width
52 mm (2.05")
Scale
650 mm (25.59")
Frets
19 frets
Fingerboard
Ebony fingerboard
Fingerstyle
Academic Study
Spanish Guitar
Key Feature:
The Magistral D-C is a really well-built instrument, offering a mature, refined sound that's surprisingly accessible. It’s an excellent choice for intermediate to advanced players who appreciate a traditional Spanish feel and a warm, balanced tone – perfect for classical, flamenco, or even some quieter Latin styles.
PROS
- • Solid cedar top delivers warm, responsive, and nuanced tone.
- • Mahogany back and sides offer balanced projection and sustain.
- • Spanish neck joint provides excellent access to upper frets.
- • Ebony fingerboard offers a smooth, fast playing experience.
CONS
- • Shellac finish can be prone to minor cracking with humidity changes.
- • Mahogany can sometimes exhibit a slightly 'boxed-in' feel compared to rosewood.
- • Water-based lacquer, while eco-friendly, may not offer the depth of a traditional finish.
⭐
4.8/5
AudioFu Score
Specs:
8/10
Detail:
9/10
Value:
6/10
Art. 534107
$791
#9
⭐
4.7/5
AudioFu Score
Specs:
8/10
Detail:
10/10
Value:
4/10
Manuel Rodriguez Cafe Cortado Curly Walnut
Nut width
52 mm (2.05")
Scale
650 mm (25.59")
Frets
24 frets
Fingerboard
Rosewood fingerboard
Spanish Guitar
Classical
Fingerstyle
Key Feature:
The Cafe Cortado is a thoughtfully designed classical guitar, offering a good balance of quality and features. The solid top and preamp make it a strong contender for both stage and studio work, particularly for students or performers who want amplification without sacrificing too much acoustic character. It’s a premium-priced instrument that delivers a lot of value for the money.
PROS
- • Solid spruce top with cedar strips offers a balanced, articulate tone.
- • Curly walnut back and sides deliver warmth and projection, surprisingly rich for plywood.
- • The ARTEC SQ-3 preamp and Solidflex pickup system is genuinely usable and sounds natural.
- • Ergonomic neck and asymmetrical tenon improve playability, especially in higher registers.
CONS
- • Plywood back and sides, while sonically decent, limit the ultimate tonal potential.
- • Water-based satin finish, while eco-friendly, might feel a bit plasticky to some.
- • The included Gewa armrest might be unnecessary or uncomfortable for some players.
⭐
4.7/5
AudioFu Score
Specs:
8/10
Detail:
10/10
Value:
4/10
Art. 590415
$1,512
Manuel Rodriguez Ecologia E-65 4/4
Nut width
52 mm (2.05")
Scale
650 mm (25.59")
Frets
19 frets
Spanish Guitar
Classical
Bossa Nova
Key Feature:
This guitar feels like a warm hug in your hands. The solid spruce top sings clearly while the walnut body adds a cozy depth. It is a great choice for players who love traditional sound and natural looks. You get great materials for the price, though you will need an amp if you want to play loud.
PROS
- • Solid spruce top offers strong projection for its class
- • Walnut back and sides provide rich, warm midrange tones
- • Maple neck ensures durable playability over long sessions
- • Natural finish highlights the beautiful grain without extra coating
CONS
- • Weight is not listed so it may feel heavy to some
- • No electronics included for amplification or recording
- • Acacia fingerboard and nut are less common than rosewood
⭐
4.6/5
AudioFu Score
Specs:
6/10
Detail:
7/10
Value:
8/10
Art. 649487
$336
Manuel Rodriguez Superior B-C
Nut width
52 mm (2.05")
Scale
650 mm (25.59")
Frets
19 frets
Bossa Nova
Flamenco
Fingerstyle
Key Feature:
This guitar uses a solid cedar top for a bright sound and aged eucalyptus for warmth. The hand-filed bone saddle and real Spanish heel give it a classic feel. It suits players who want a traditional sound without electric features.
PROS
- • Solid cedar top offers bright attack and fast response
- • Aged eucalyptus back and sides provide warm mid-range
- • Hand-filed bone saddle adds vintage warmth to notes
- • Real Spanish heel cap ensures authentic classical feel
CONS
- • Weight is not specified in the provided details
- • No pickups included for electric or amplified use
- • Description omits specific tonal character notes
⭐
4.6/5
AudioFu Score
Specs:
6/10
Detail:
8/10
Value:
6/10
Art. 534126
$756
Manuel Rodriguez Ecologia Samba Truss Rod
Nut width
48 mm (1.89")
Scale
650 mm (25.59")
Frets
20 frets
Spanish Guitar
Classical
Bossa Nova
Key Feature:
The Ecologia Samba is a surprisingly well-rounded classical guitar. The spruce top gives it a lively character, and the walnut provides a lovely warmth. It’s a great choice for students or intermediate players looking for a solid instrument with amplified capability and a comfortable, adjustable neck – it’s a good all-arounder.
PROS
- • Solid European spruce top delivers a bright, responsive voice.
- • Walnut back and sides add warmth and sustain, nicely balanced.
- • Truss rod allows for precise neck adjustment, crucial for stability.
- • Solidflex pickup with SQ-3 EQ offers surprisingly usable amplified tones.
CONS
- • Acacia fingerboard, while functional, lacks the premium feel of ebony.
- • Open pore finish can be prone to moisture absorption in humid climates.
- • While versatile, it leans towards a brighter tone, limiting some darker genres.
⭐
4.7/5
AudioFu Score
Specs:
6/10
Detail:
10/10
Value:
6/10
Art. 609872
$697
Manuel Rodriguez Ecologia Samba Plano
Nut width
48 mm (1.89")
Scale
650 mm (25.59")
Frets
20 frets
Spanish Guitar
Academic Study
Classical
Key Feature:
The Ecologia Samba Plano is a really interesting offering – the flat body design is unique and gives it a distinctive look and feel. It's a great choice for students or gigging musicians who want a solid-top classical guitar with a built-in pickup system for amplified performance, offering a surprisingly balanced and versatile sound.
PROS
- • Solid spruce top delivers a clear, responsive tone with good projection.
- • Walnut back and sides add warmth and sustain, balancing the bright spruce.
- • Solidflex pickup and SQ-3 EQ offer surprisingly clean amplified sound, stage-ready.
- • Maple neck provides stability and a comfortable, fast playing feel for fingerstyle.
CONS
- • Open pore finish, while aesthetically pleasing, may require more diligent care to prevent moisture issues.
- • Acacia fingerboard, while functional, lacks the slickness of ebony or rosewood.
- • The flat body design, while unique, might feel less resonant compared to a traditional curved body.
⭐
4.6/5
AudioFu Score
Specs:
6/10
Detail:
9/10
Value:
6/10
Art. 609862
$674
Manuel Rodriguez Ecologia Samba
Nut width
48 mm (1.89")
Scale
650 mm (25.59")
Frets
20 frets
Classical
Flamenco
Academic Study
Key Feature:
The Ecologia Samba is a solid choice for intermediate players or students looking for a well-built, amplified classical. It offers a balanced sound – bright spruce countered by the walnut – and the pickup system is surprisingly decent for gigging. It's a versatile instrument that won't break the bank, perfect for practice, lessons, or small performances.
PROS
- • Solid European spruce top delivers a clear, responsive, and articulate tone.
- • Walnut back and sides add warmth and sustain, balancing the spruce's brightness.
- • Manuel Rodriguez by Artec SQ-3 preamp offers a usable amplified sound for performance.
- • Maple neck provides stability and a comfortable playing feel, typical of Rodriguez guitars.
CONS
- • Acacia fingerboard can feel a bit harder than rosewood, affecting slide work.
- • Silk-matte finish, while attractive, can be prone to fingerprints and smudging.
- • Nut width of 48mm might feel narrow for players accustomed to wider classical necks.
⭐
4.6/5
AudioFu Score
Specs:
6/10
Detail:
9/10
Value:
6/10
Art. 609858
$697
Manuel Rodriguez Santos Pavo EX-SS-EA G
Nut width
52 mm (2.05")
Scale
650 mm (25.59")
Frets
19 frets
Fingerstyle
Flamenco
Bossa Nova
Key Feature:
The Santos Pavo EX-SS-EA G is a solid choice for intermediate players or those looking for a quality amplified classical guitar. The spruce top provides a bright, clear voice that cuts through, while the rosewood adds warmth. It's a well-built instrument with a dependable pickup system, perfect for students or performers needing a stage-ready sound.
PROS
- • Solid spruce top delivers a bright, responsive, and clear fundamental tone.
- • Santos rosewood back/sides offer warmth and rich overtones, balancing the spruce.
- • MR by ARTEC SQ-3 pickup provides clean amplified sound with minimal feedback.
- • Genuine Spanish neck tenon ensures excellent stability and a traditional feel.
CONS
- • Ovangkol fingerboard, while durable, might feel slightly less smooth than ebony to some players.
- • The high-gloss finish, while beautiful, can be prone to fingerprints and reflections.
- • The Hannabach 815HTC strings are decent, but a worthwhile upgrade for more nuanced tone.
⭐
4.7/5
AudioFu Score
Specs:
6/10
Detail:
10/10
Value:
6/10
Art. 595440
$814
Every 4/4 size classical guitars that matches
25 models match this page. The 15 above are covered in detail; the rest are listed here with their published specifications.
| # | Model | Specifications | Price |
|---|---|---|---|
| 16 | Manuel Rodriguez Exotica Santos Real EX-SC G | Nut width 52 mm (2.05") · Scale 650 mm (25.59") · Frets 19 frets | $814 |
| 17 | Manuel Rodriguez 60-S Spruce | Nut width 52 mm (2.05") · Scale 650 mm (25.59") · Frets 19 frets | $558 |
| 18 | Manuel Rodriguez 60-C Cedar | Nut width 52 mm (2.05") · Scale 650 mm (25.59") · Frets 19 frets | $558 |
| 19 | Manuel Rodriguez 40 Cedar/Zebrano | Nut width 52 mm (2.05") · Scale 650 mm (25.59") · Frets 19 frets | $558 |
| 20 | Manuel Rodriguez Academia 40 Spruce/Zebrano | Nut width 52 mm (2.05") · Scale 650 mm (25.59") · Frets 19 frets | $558 |
| 21 | Manuel Rodriguez Ecologia Samba Plano Truss Rod | Nut width 48 mm (1.89") · Scale 650 mm (25.59") · Frets 20 frets | $697 |
| 22 | Manuel Rodriguez Caballero Prinzipio CA-CM CE | Nut width 52 mm (2.05") · Scale 650 mm (25.59") · Fingerboard Rosewood fingerboard | $313 |
| 23 | Manuel Rodriguez Caballero Principio CA-CM 4/4 | Nut width 52 mm (2.05") · Scale 650 mm (25.59") · Fingerboard Rosewood fingerboard | $267 |
| 24 | Manuel Rodriguez Tradicion T-65 4/4 | Nut width 52 mm (2.05") · Scale 650 mm (25.59") | $348 |
| 25 | Manuel Rodriguez Superior Anniversario 120 J-SB | Nut width 52 mm (2.05") · Scale 650 mm (25.59") | $1,163 |
4/4 Size Classical Guitars by the numbers
Measured across all 453 models in this category, so «wide», «short» or «expensive» mean something you can check.
Price
median $639
from $149 to $4,144
Nut width
median 51 mm (2.01")
from 46 mm (1.81") to 52 mm (2.05") · 428 models
Scale
median 650 mm (25.59")
from 648 mm (25.51") to 650 mm (25.59") · 420 models
Frets
median 19
from 18 to 22 · 220 models
Neck profile
C, D
most common · 20 models
Fingerboard
ebony, rosewood, walnut
most common · 142 models
Fingerboard radius
median 400 mm (15.75")
from 400 mm (15.75") to 406 mm (15.98") · 10 models
Body
basswood, sapele, okoume
most common · 22 models
Weight
median 0.6 kg
from 0.6 kg to 3.1 kg · 8 models
How to Choose the Best 4/4 Size Classical Guitars
1
Heritage & Construction
Manuel Rodriguez guitars have a long history rooted in Spanish craftsmanship. They generally stick to traditional construction methods - solid spruce or cedar tops, rosewood back and sides - which contributes to a warmer, more mature tone compared to some of the brighter, more modern designs you see elsewhere.
2
Tone Characteristics
That's where the magic happens. Expect a pronounced fundamental, a real richness in the lower registers that gives them a lovely low-end thump. The midrange isn't scooped out like some of the brighter instruments - it has that fat midrange honk that really cuts through a mix, especially when playing with other instruments. Highs are clear but not overly sparkly; it's a balanced, vocal tone.
3
Playability & Neck Profile
Rodriguez generally nails the neck profile. They're comfortable to play, not too thick, not too thin - something most players will find easy to adapt to. The action is usually well-set from the factory, although a quick setup can always improve it. Low action is key for classical, and Rodriguez generally delivers.
4
Build Quality & Materials
You're getting solid wood construction across the range, which is a big deal. The bracing patterns are well-executed, contributing to good sustain and projection. While they aren't using exotic, figured woods, the quality of the standard materials is consistently good for the price point. That said, cheaper models might have a slightly less refined finish.
5
Value Proposition
They consistently offer a fantastic bang for your buck. You're getting a guitar with a traditional Spanish tone and solid construction that punches above its weight class. They're a real alternative to the more ubiquitous Yamaha or Cordoba, especially if you're after a warmer, more mature sound.
Buying Guide
Don't expect miracles at the lower end of the range - the basic models are perfectly serviceable, but the finish might be a little rough around the edges. Spend a bit more for a model with a solid cedar top; it'll give you a warmer, more responsive tone. And always, always get a proper setup from a qualified luthier - it'll make a world of difference in playability and intonation. It's a small investment that pays huge dividends.
How This List Is Built
We don't play these instruments — we're a catalog, not a review desk, and we'd rather say so than pretend otherwise. This page covers 25 of 453 4/4 size classical guitars from the Thomann catalogue, which is the largest single source of specification data in this category: 15 in detail, the rest listed with their specifications.
Position is computed, not curated. We parse the manufacturer's own description into actual values — nut width, scale, fret count, fingerboard radius, size, alloy — and rank on them: how many specifications a model has published, how many of them are measurable numbers, and how precisely it meets this page's criterion. A product image adds a little. Price is not a ranking signal: it tells you nothing about whether a neck fits your hand. The same inputs always produce the same order, so nothing here is shuffled to look fresh.
What this list is good for: narrowing a category down to a shortlist by spec and budget. What it isn't: a substitute for hearing an instrument. Before you buy, read hands-on reviews and, where you can, play it. Full methodology.
Frequently Asked Questions
Absolutely. They're forgiving, comfortable to play, and the warm tone is encouraging for new players. The action is usually manageable, which is important for developing finger strength.
Spruce is generally brighter and more responsive, good for a wider range of playing styles. Cedar is warmer, more mellow, and often preferred for classical and flamenco due to its immediate responsiveness and rich overtone content. It's a matter of personal preference.
The stock tuners are usually adequate, but a worthwhile upgrade if you're struggling with tuning stability. It's a relatively inexpensive mod that can save you a lot of frustration.
Definitely. Their balanced tone and good projection make them ideal for recording, especially for acoustic classical, flamenco, or even Latin-influenced styles. A good mic and preamp are more important than the guitar itself, but Rodriguez provides a solid foundation.
Keep it in its case when not in use, avoid extreme temperature and humidity changes, and wipe it down with a soft cloth after playing. A regular cleaning and occasional lemon oil application on the fretboard will keep it in good shape for years.
